Everything After - A 9.11 Youth Circle

Alright, I'm curious as to where everyone here stands on the patriotism issue. I personally am not a patriotic person. In my mind the only difference between me and a person in Mexico is that there is a different government controlling their land. I think these governments use patriotism to turn the world into a football game. They want you to be "proud" of your country so dissent will become unfashionable. Also especially since 9/11 certain things have become "unpatriotic" and "un-American" what does this really say? It says those in charge will dictate what you should show your support for. If I am opposed to war it is not un-American and if I think king George is an infantile moron it does not make me un-American since supposedly my voice counts in defining what America is. so that whole rant is why I believe patriotism gives our government way too much control.

Okay, I'm not quite as anti-patriotism as chris, but i'm definitely not someone you would call patriotic. i think it's okay to be proud of certain parts of our country, like our resistence and some of the heroism shown on 9-11. on the other hand, there is plenty to be ashamed of. although there is a war going on in israel, there are still more people dying in america every day due to daily crimes. i also think that extreme patriotism does more harm than good - sure, it creates unity, but it also creates enemies. how are other governments supposed to help our cause if americans are denouncing every other country? i also don't believe that most americans have the knowledge to judge our country as the "best." similar to chris's views, i think that excessive patriotism can almost create a dictatorship. when the citizens of a country become too devoted to protecting the country and believe that everything the country does is right, then they give the government complete control and refuse to stand up to the government. general civil rights and liberties are witheld, especially from those with controversial and differing views - exactly the opposite of what america is said to be. okay, that's about it. so to sum it up, i don't think patriotism is a bad thing - it just needs to be contained and moderate. wow, that was massively long. hope everyone had a nice day. :)
*Allison*

Hey guys!
Sorry for not having introduced myself, I've been doing crazy exams. Well, patriotism, eh? I actually did a speech on this topic last year and it's a difficult issue. Patriotism can be a cause of racism, and that's never a good thing. Now, not being American myself (I'm Australian), maybe I'm not entitled to an opinion on this. Well, tough luck, because I'm going to have one anyway! From what I know about America, and what I've learnt at school, patriotism is a pretty big thing over there. Over here we just kind of sit back and let it all flow past. I mean, we're happy for our sporting teams and what not, but we don't drape ourselves in green and gold and fly aus. flags in our backyards or anything. The attitude that we've picked up from America is that a lot of people are of the opinion that it's the greatest place in the world and that they have a lot to be proud of. As an objective observer, I must say that it doesn't seem to be the world's greatest place to me. Sure, I guess it has it's perks, but really, I wouldn't choose to live there. No offence. So, in this case, I think it could be potentially dangerous to be so loyal to a country that has the potential to cause so much damage and ruin so many lives with the right support. Maybe it's time more people used their right to freedom of speech and told George Bush that maybe dropping bombs on all the places where Osama bin Laden *might* be hiding is not the best idea! That's just my opinion. On the whole, I'm with Allison. Patriotism needs to be kept contained and moderate, and not become racist. It should embrace the good fortune of people to be living in a free country and to be living in harmony with people from all over the world that now call that country home. It should also restrict battles between countries to the sporting arena and let all involved see that the sport is played for fun and to promote harmony between nations and that at the end of the game, no matter who won, everyone can be proud of where they come from.

Megan.

patriotism too me. well i just don understand it. i wouldn't choose to live elsewhere, i like it here. i like the people i like the land. but i dont associate my liking with boundaries drawn up by a government. I have no more of a connection with a sate ive never been in (like Idaho for example) than with mexico or sudan or whereveer. Its all jus land hat has people on it. where does pride for a country come in? are we proud o have been born in these deignated borders, wheres the accomplishment? tha seems like luck to me. Just to finish off i thought id share an interesting quote i herd from some dude who ives in maine. he says "all around maine since sept. 11th ive seen flags in every car window and feverent calls for war. Yet when i visit New York City I see fewer flags because they havent forgotten that thousands of people died." The travesty is not that americans died its that people died.

Basically those who are now more patriotic since sept. 11th are most easily characterized as "fake patriots" because really, they see people dying and what they SHOULD feel is grief for the deceased and distaste toward the terrorists but instead they feel nationalism along with the grief and distaste. Now how did America do something good by being attacked? THe attack was wrong, yes but that doesnt make us all great. America IS good in some senses but I hate it when people run around yelling "land of the free" and waving their flags and knowing NOTHING about the country really.

-Amanda

I thought it was kind of cool how (mostly) everyone came together as a nation after 9-11. Everywhere I looked flags were flying and people were wearing red, white, and blue. But, I guess, maybe flying a flag or wearing blue isn't enough. Hey I grieved for those people who were killed, of course, I've had my own share of losses. I'm not saying rejoice about people being dead, but share the grief of others and help carry their weight. That's what I would call patriotism. It builds everyone up. You know?

"I thought it was kind of cool how (mostly) everyone came together as a nation after 9-11"

WHO came together with everyone? Not many people. Did the people who beat or suspected Arabs or swarthy-looking people or gave them strange looks come together with everyone? Did the Arab-Americans and other Americans from the Middle East who were victims of a visible racism come together with everyone and be proud to be one of the Americans even like the Americans who were against them? did American gays come together with fundamentalists and all the gay-bashers, both inside and outside the bible belt? did hippies and hippie-hating ex-militarys come together? did anarchists come together with patriotic Americans? That doesn't leave much to be united. basically a lot of adults with a lot of power in the system, like in the White House singing God Bless America, that's all who felt one with a nation, that being an American vs. being something else was all that mattered. all they had really had to divide them before was minor Democrat or Republican differences. There wasn't much in this event to unite the rest of us with everyone.

When I look at myself in the mirror, I don't see myself as an American. I see youth, i see emotions, i see connections with people all over the world who think like me. what do I see in common with 50-year-old judgmental piercing-hating patriots who happen to live in America? Nothing.