Everything After - A 9.11 Youth Circle - Not so heterosexual people

Well, Gray. Are you asking about our thoughts on, as you put it.. "not so heterosexual people?" Hehe. Well, my best friend is not so heterosexual. I know, I know. You hear people say that all the time. "Some of my best friends are gay!" But it's different with me. He was my best friend before he was anything else. In fact, he's one of the best friends I've ever had. Sexual orientation aside.

Yes, I am Christian. I attend church. But I do not believe in persecuting people for something they can't control. It's a sin, but God handle's sins. I mean, we hang out with sinners all the time. People who curse, drink, smoke, lie, cheat, steal, etc. MTV-- a whole network of sin!

But we still continue to hang around these people and I'm sure many of us have viewed MTV at some point in our lives.

So why is it that "not so heterosexual" people who are kind and would never hurt a fly, should be tortured and cast out over heterosexuals who commit multiple sins every day?

I hate that all of these organized religions that look down on gays as if they are evil. I know a few gays, and they're some of the coolest people I know. The fact that organized religions look down on them only gives their congregation reason to oppress. I'm not going to look at being gay as a sin. That's up to the big guy to decide.

Furthermore, America is a land of freedom. We have the right to express ourselves how we like. I allow you religious zealots to throw your lil' pamphlets in my face. I'm sure ya' all can tolerate a lil' gay pride parade now and again.

...punch and pie

I think it's fair to say that American culture is very heterosexual. Not homophobic but heterosexual. A culture that likes the boundaries and rules implied by gender followed and respected. Like if you're a boy, you like girls, you don't like other boys, you like girls. Like that's all based on gender and nothing more, forget everything else this person is. And if someone's gender is hard to distinguish, if they are ambiguous or act more like the "opposite" gender then there is something wrong or "off" about them, it's not acceptable to act out of your gender, whether by dating someone of your own sex, or acting (even dressing) like the opposite sex. Even though these people are not necessarily homosexual or bisexual, or doing anything "wrong" it's like to the observer they're just as guilty of something. Also it's like everyone is heterosexual until proven otherwise. You know? It's assumed that that's what's "normal" and "natural" and those other people, well we have to find a way to tolerate them. Walk through a toy store some time people. Walk through the "girls" section and the "boys" section. It's really scary.

I also think that the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender/etc. community is just as affected by this same sort of heterosexual mentality. I personally feel gender sucks. I think people should have the right to live their lives without checking in with their private parts.............and then checking in with the TV (or the Bible, their family, their lover, thier science book, whatever it is man) and back to their private parts and so on without like listening to themselves. I know you guys will disagree...that's OK. Cuz like the same thing used to happen with race. I think gender is just as oppressive as race man. People would not/still don't really do anything (especially in America) that's not fitting to the skin they're wearing. So I'd like to hear what you guys think.

I agree with Gray on the toys section thing so much. Its like, black isle..... pink isle.... Barbie.... Spiderman....

And about the religons... you know what I've decided? Christians (Not picking on them, thats just who I grew up with) are always complaining about gays.... I know a lot of other things they choose to ignore. Like helping the Poor. Being kind to your nieghbor. If they can ignore stuff like that, I don't see why they can NEVER ignore the verse that say being gay is bad. And I'm gonna ignore it, till I get my whole religon thing sorted out. And even if I decide being gay is bad in the end (which I doubt) I'll still have gay friends and stuff.
But honestly, all Christians seem to do (to me) is point out the bad things in people. Or at least what they think are the bad things. Thats why church, to me, seems so hypocritical.

Personally I'm Christian also, and I don't like the fact that just because someone isn't the "normal" because they are gay they are asked to leave the church since they are "setting a bad example." I have nothing against people who are gay, I have friends who are. I've found that gay people are more understanding and there for you more then other people. My one gay guy friend was the one who stayed with me for a whole week after my dad died, didn't leave me alone at all. He missed a week of school to stay with me, but it meant soooo much to me, none of my other friends would of done that for me. I've been there for him through his hard times too but I still feel like I owe him so much for everything he has done for me. I just don't understand why some other Christians(don't mean to lump them all together) have a problem with gays 'cause if you'd get to know them they are really cool! My best friend(she's a girl) is lesbian but she doesn't ever push it on me, and she's the sweetest person I know.

~Sweetie~ You know, you say that people who are homosexual are more understanding and accepting of people. That's true. But it's not simply because of their sexual orientation. They're that way because they have to be. It would be kind of redundant and self-righteous if they didn't.

When you are looked at as a minority, chances are you are heavily discriminated against. If you treated everyone else just the way that you are treated, you'd probably live a pretty lonely life, right?

I'm a minority on all sorts of levels (race, gender, ability, etc.) and I am very accepting of others. But I'm accepting because I have to be. I have to accept everyone because if I get too picky, then I'll end up friendless. That's just a reality of being "different" in our society.

Unique, I get where you're coming from, I totally do, I feel the same way. Except I don't think it's necessarily that common among people who are oppressed or discriminated against to be accepting or understanding of others. I find that the opposite can be true. That these people who experience all kinds of ugliness can turn around and do the same thing to someone else.

Also I think it sucks that you are forced to be accepting. You have the right to be as picky as the next person. So what if you end up "friendless." Contrary to popular belief it is not the end of the world. Don't compromise man. I know that it's all important and whatever for teenagers to be accepted and our friends are our universes and whatever but not at any cost. Make people step up! Make them compromise, their ignorance. Being different in our society is a f***in honor.

Gray Okay, maybe I shouldn't have generalized everything like that. I guess I'm just speaking from personal experience. I know that I can't speak for everyone. But speaking for myself... I'm not compromizing anyone's ignorance. And I agree that people should be able to be as picky as they want to.

The truth of the matter is that most people are. Which is why I often end up friendless. Actually, I'm going through all of that now. Because I don't have the opportunity to choose my friends, I end up getting "stuck" with whatever is left. When I was younger, that meant all the kids that were classified as "geeks." Now that I'm older, it means that I am "friends" with people who aren't necessarily as eager to be friends with me.

Now, of course, I could just cut them all loose, say "Hasta la vista," and just be done with them. I could fly solo. But the reality is that you do get lonely. Being different and being alone are two entirely different (no pun intended) things.

So for me, if given a choice between having to compromise a couple of things (within reason) and being deeply depressed... I'd have to choose compromise. Now maybe, as I get older, I won't care. But adolescences is a tough time. It's even tougher when you have to go through it alone.

i totally understand where ur coming from, unique. i spent most of my childhood being tormented in elementary school with no friends, much less hope for having friends. but i did, however, know that god had a plan for me. there is something one should not do, in order to get friends, and that is to compromise their moral/belief system. u hear all those ppl telling u not to smoke or drink or do drugs just to "fit in" and "have friends". this is the same thing. now i'm not saying u can't be friends with them, but u have to realize that after spending considerable amounts of time with ppl who live a different lifestyle than you, they're bound to rub off on you, whether it's for good or bad. u just have to be careful who ur friends are and who u r as a person, so u can be sure not to "change" just to fit in. so if someone of a different lifestyle likes you for you, then hey, go for it, but be careful. u don't want to lose ur identity.

i guess im coming from a differn't up bringing. I have one brother, who is now a senior in college, and i am the total opposite of him. All my life the one thing that has been easiest for me is making friends. While i struggled with school and study problems, the ony thing that remained constant was I always had friends. I was never worried about fitting in and such, but i think the reason for this was becasue i never had to worry about it. I can see where people come from. something that i have always tried to do was keeping an open mind, and respect others. I know that people will have differn't opinion, even some of my best friends. despite this though i felt aht arguements are key to a good friendship. Obviously you are not going to agree on everything, and as long as you dont stay to overly competitive with the whole argument thing, tbings will be ok. it teaches you to keep an open mind to watht eh the other person is saying, which is keyc ause it shows you haver respect for that person. also there is nothing wrong with not having a lot of friends. i think it is key in life to be ablet o spend time withurself and enjoy that. this might soudn a little egotistical but if you can't respect yourself than how are u going to respect others.

Papermonky I understand where you're coming from. And don't get me wrong-- I would never compromise my morals and beliefs. I also know where to draw the line. Which is why I would end up friendless a lot of times. But in those cases, I didn't care so much because I didn't want to associate myself with people who are involved in drugs, alcohol, etc.

Pintozo I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having friends. And no, I don't think you sound egotistical. You're being honest. But it is important to realize that not everyone has had it as easy as you socially. Not everyone has that support of friends there for them when times are tough. So, just be mindful, that if ever there's a situation where you and your friends are joking around-- even if you think it's harmless-- it could be very harmful. I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just saying that it is important to always be mindful of the fact that something you say that you may just be saying in fun, could cause considerable harm.

I've always had trouble making friends. Its not that I'm anti social or anything, I just don't fit in where I am.

I've hung out with druggies (This was before they were druggies) the popular kids, and am currently hanging out with the geeks. In my school, thats just about the only choices you have.

So, no, you shouldn't compromise your beliefs, I geuss, but some people can't deal with that. And I don't think its neccesarily a bad thing to be on the outside. I definately wouldn't want to be popular, Druggies the people are at least more interesting than Populars, but theres a big chance you'll start doing drugs yourself.

I really don't know what I was trying to say in this post. Oh well....